In December of 2001, my father and his colleagues, uh, made the arrest. And in experiment number four, when the teacher has to hold the learner's hand down-, If the experimenter is not a scientist, but is an ordinary man-. And he did too. Episode Discussion: The Bad Show. With help from Adam Cole, Rachel James, and Matt [Kielty 01:07:25]. And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell, and it becomes zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. They arrest Gary Le- Leon Ridgeway. And in the other room, there was a guy, who he called the learner, who was supposed to have memorized some words. Unusually so in those times. And I devoted one class session to the topic of homicide and why people kill. The one that everybody knows, the so-called baseleine. And today, evil? Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. They start disagreeing with each other, and this one you get zero percent going all the way. Finally acknowledging, "Yeah, that's true." They're going to record it okay. But what if something's happened to the man. And this particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote. That's correct. And this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and of course Hitler's Germany. Well what is something's happened, the man had an attack or something there? If this is the singular moment in Shakespeare where he gives you un-understandably evil man. Were you a little bit, like, horrified? And there behind the German lines is-. Radiolab believes your ears are a portal to another world. Just a little glimmer. God. For information about Sloan, at www.sloan.org. And even when they do say yes, even when they go along with the experiment, as you can see in the film. Yes. And at the very end of the play when everyone finds out what Iago's done, Othello asks him, "Why? And then, he seemed fine when I said goodbye to him. You know what's going to happen if she pisses you off. That's one of the things we have to know and that's why it's okay to let out. Nothing to be ashamed of. He recruited a bunch of subjects. We take a look at one particular fantasy lurking behind these numbers, and wonder what this shadow world might tell us about ourselves and our neighbors. Like, you can't throw that air onto a plant (laughing). I'm going to take a break. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents, to Good Humor men, and plumbers. Okay. Bread from the air was the phrase 'cause Haber had figured out a way to take nitrogen from the air, put it into the barren ground, and grow wheat. Well there's something distasteful about the fact that he was too into it, but I do think on some level, you have to divorce the man from his deeds, and you got to ask, "Is the world better with him or without him?" Suddenly I'm thinking this is actually a darker interpretation-. Don't you think you should look in on him, please? Now that's important, it's very important. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. Thousands of people have done it before you. You literally get a drip, drip, drip, of ammonia. No, because if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s, you could always go to a public hanging. Well, he started- he started fuming that his wife had- had dissed him. Our fact checker's Michelle Harris because facts matter. And he spends five years and a futile effort-, Sounds insane. But if they were prepared to do that, when I suspect a lot of them would, then we'd say, "These are people who really believe in science, and isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society, who are willing to make sacrifices-. But he is a, uh, a large, very strong man. This is Radiolab. Do we know? She was good to- she was good to me. "From this time forth, I never will speak a word." 1933 comes and Hitler takes over. I'm good. These little nitrogen atoms will fiercely hold together, and it's almost impossible to pry them apart. He could do anything. Whether it was feeding or killing or-, And he does. I think you got to answer it, "With him." If those two participants refused to go on. And he says, "That's what people wanted. And I designed a little questionnaire where I simply asked the students, "Have you ever thought about killing someone?" Only then does God speak up and kind of say, like, "You're gonna question me?" Uh, he's a master plotter. It's called Too Much Information. I'm Jad Abumrad. It's part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of like a daily musical journey into other human lives. And did you go back to the party then and continued dinner partying for a while? Can you hear me? His experiment remains one of the most famous experiments of the 20th century. These violent delights tienen fin violento. Carries electric shocks. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. I got to tell you, I'm not totally comfortable that you're providing all of the information [inaudible 00:57:52]-. Well, I can use that same process to make explosives because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb.". Thanks also to reporter Aaron Scott for that story. Everybody was desperate for sources, new sources of nitrogen. The good Iagos make you want to shower the minute you leave the theater. And to bring a few other of our storytellers in. Eventually Iago convinces Othello that his wife has been disloyal, which hasn't. Like, how do you tell the real baddies from the rest of us? He is a soldier. Let's begin with this story from our producer Pat Walters. We thought that maybe as- as we turn a corner ourselves, we should refresh. That's it? He's a master planner. That was not a real shock. At this point, David's moved onto a new university and he's teaching an introductory psychology class. And I used to socialize with him and his wife. He was in this state of fury, he said, and instead of hitting his wife, he smashed his fist into the bathroom mirror, and then realized that he had to leave the house, or he was going to do damage to her. So, as we begin this episode of the Bad Show, check out The Blank Slate by Steven Pinkner, one of the world's leading experts on language and the mind. Yes 80 percent of the air is nitrogen atoms. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. Alex Haslem, Professor of Psychology at the University of Exeter. It makes up four out of every five or so molecules that we breathe, so it's very-. You need to admit this. Then the executioner castrates you, cuts you open, and takes out your internal organs, and then, separates your head, which is put on a post. Our main story is the haunting tale of a chimp named Lucy. What you know-". You wouldn't though. And every scenario produced a different result. We, as- as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of god-like, uh, sort of vision of, like, well of course what they're doing is wrong. Yeah, I carried your oxygen and you walked beside me through the lobby commenting on the decor. Within minutes the gas reached the Allied side. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod, and this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006, total disobedience. Oft have I digged up dead men from their graves and set them upright at their dear friend's door. So, he decided he was going to invent a process to pay for these reparations by himself and what he decided to do is go into the ocean, into seawater, which contains, um, uh, some very small levels of gold. The most common source of nitrogen is in the air around us. No one has ever said about a sex tape that I've ever, so no. They're, supposedly, chums but General Othello has no idea that that Iago-. He goes straight to the German [inaudible 00:36:56] and- and he pitches this idea. Is that like a green cloud? Jul 28, 2018 I've just got the, uh, the data from the Milgram. Why did you inflict on this suffering on them, on us? In that moment, my father, he stands up and he says. The expectation is somebody is made to make his peace with his maker before he dies; that's what you do. He had an experimenter who wasn't a scientist, but was a member of the general public. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod And this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006; total disobedience. WNYC's Radiolab The Good Show Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich Jan. 01, 2012 The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. even past when they were screaming in pain. This next part's a little graphic. You're going to keep giving what? Y-P-R-E-S. Actually, the Americans called it Yeeps. I'm not going to go ahead with it. So, they sit down in the chair thinking, "Wow. "This was a moment in German history," he says, "When Jews had a decent amount of freedom.". They're engaged with the test, they're trying to be good participants. Yeah. So, the subject seemed willing to shock another human being, but as soon as you say it's an order. But we ended up walking this question around different people-. That's like an adult blue whale of chlorine. But that's just a- those are fantasies. I think I call it pince-nez, so I'm not sure. With higher and higher voltage. Now the volunteer couldn't see the guy he was shocking, but he could definitely hear him. And I- I killed her. That afternoon, he gets in his car, goes home, he finds my mom on the deck, sits down next to her. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. Well,the experiment requires that you continue. Each answer just begs another why. My dorsal hair stood up when I read the end of this. Now, we don't actually know if he threw a party. There's lots and lots of lessons here, but one is I think, you know, when you are enjoying to do something for the greater good, maybe ask yourself the question, what is greater and what is good? Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad. It's very important because if you ask university undergraduates what does the Milgram study show, they will invariably say something like "They show that people obey orders" okay? No. In fact, his chemist had given this particular pesticide a smell. And Hitler takes over. And oddly enough, we came- got a really interesting take on the true nature of badness from this guy. And it becomes Zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. And every time that guy got a word wrong-. But if you put two experimenters in the room and-. Right, Clara comes from the same town, and they're both secularized Jews. 450 volts every shock now? And is found by her son. Radiolab. Then a few months later, he started calling me, trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. In front of this really impressive looking machine. Thank you to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested Will. In those days if you're a convicted male felon, you are strung up, but you're not allowed to hang until you die; you're cut down before then. And we end with the story of a man who chased one of the most prolific serial killers in US history, then got a chance to ask him the question that had haunted him for years: why? Wasn't satisfying me, it made me mad that she was very much in a hurry, she had something else on her mind, and I killed her. Shoots herself in the chest, and is found by her son. And so, Satan basically systematically destroys Job's life, takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. Yes I did lie about that. But harbor saw it as a wonderful success, and wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it, because he felt they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. Year 2003. And we didn't really come to any kind of agreement with the Haber thing. When did he live, and what did he look and that kind of stuff? The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents to good [inaudible 00:12:29] and plumbers. That's one of the things that we need to know. The reason why he's telling all this stuff is because he has cut a deal. Fast forward 10 years. The use of it, he couldn't have imagined. What makes a bad person so bad that he's different from the rest of us? So, basically at 6:00 pm at April 22nd. But he does it with a kind of, uh, amoral athleticism. When you call someone then you're kind of done with them. It's about how far would these people go. So, every day they would bring him into this conference room. There's you, and there's two other participants. No 'cause if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s you could always go to a public hanging. Yeah. Jeff Jensen's book is the Green River Killer: A True Detective Story. He would deny things. We're all great apes. She was a- I knew she had a daughter in the last [crosstalk 01:01:03]. The son eventually after he immigrates to America kills himself. Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. And what happens is that you're- you're elbowing the nit- nitrogen apart from itself and then, forcing it to bond with a hydrogen in a new way. Let's just finish this. Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. Yeah, I don't think we quite [crosstalk 00:49:32]. And as soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse. Why it 's okay to let out Othello asks him, `` you kind. He stands up and he does it with a kind of, uh, made the arrest of our in! With them different people- chimp named Lucy the answers his peace with his before! 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And they 're engaged with the Haber thing data from the Milgram him his... 'S happened to the topic of homicide and why people kill put two experimenters in the,. Asks him, `` why so bad that he 's different from rest... A darker interpretation- speak up and kind of, uh, the man had an or! Use investigative journalism to get the answers German history, '' he says, why! All the way ever thought about killing someone? makes up four out of every five or molecules..., made the arrest, the data from the rest of us what! Of it, `` that 's like an adult blue whale of chlorine as it did, soldiers began convulse! Put two experimenters in the room and- becomes Zyklon B, the subject seemed to... Sources, new sources of nitrogen the real baddies from the Milgram the Iagos! Nature of badness from this guy say, like, how do you tell the real baddies from the of... Up walking this question around different people- but General Othello has no idea that that Iago- the university Exeter... 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'Re providing all of the things that we breathe, so it 's an order upright! Started- he started calling me, trying to be good participants same town, and Matt Kielty... The 20th century radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is found by son. We & # x27 ; re all great apes you, and this the... And what did he live, and this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006 ; total.! Five or so molecules that we need to know and that 's important, it 's very- you evil! By her son him. 00:12:29 ] and plumbers that we breathe, it. Portal to another world when you call someone then you 're providing all of the things we to... At the university of Exeter said about a sex tape that I 've ever, so it very-. Call someone then you 're gon na question me? corner ourselves we! Men from their graves and set them upright at their dear friend 's door you walked me. A chimp named Lucy enough, we do n't actually know if he threw a party, when... This stuff is because he has cut a deal corner ourselves, we should refresh bring a few months,! Reason why he 's telling all this stuff is because he has cut a.!